Week of March 18, 2024
1/ CIRS Cleaning Standards:
QUESTION: I am moving into a new house we just built. The house we currently are living in is a 60- year-old farmhouse. What is the protocol for moving things from the old house to the new house. What can be cleaned?
ANSWER: The first element is to do ERMI or HERTSMI-2 testing for problem organisms in the new house. Just because it is
new doesn’t mean it is safe. Ordering from EnviroBiomics, panel #7, will tell you where you are at baseline for HERTSMI-2, actinos and endotoxins.
Meanwhile, the same testing should have been done in your old house but since it hasn’t, we will concentrate on cleaning non-porous items. The general guidelines are – if it is made of plastic, glass,
metal or wood, cleaning will be effective. Porous items (heavy fabrics, curtains, furniture, rugs, boxes, papers…) however, usually can never be cleaned. Most people will discard porous and difficult to clean items. Clothing can be washed or dry cleaned.
Also review the remediation and rigorous cleaning resources listed below for more information.
2/ Paint Remediation:
QUESTION: Does mold killing paint make the area more susceptible to toxic bacteria?
ANSWER:
Using any type of paint to “kill mold” is not an effective solution.
Here’s the catch: Mold resistant paint claims to kill and prevent the future growth of mold only on the paint surface itself. They will in no way prevent mold growth and bacterial infection in porous areas such as the drywall, framing, or on other surfaces in your ceilings and walls. Plus, if there are leaky pipes, ducts, or a heavy moisture buildup contributing to the condition, it will come back.
Mold and the offending bacterias and biotoxins of a moldy environment will thrive where there’s enough moisture to encourage its growth.
The moldy area needs to have the source of the water problem rooted out, plus the entire area, perhaps home, needs to be thoroughly remediated for mold and the offending bioxtoxin and bacteria fragments and particles emitted through the building before new paint is applied to any previously moldy area.
Then there’s the problem with mold killing paint which has to do with use of Benomyl, a fungicide added to paint. It is a fungicide that acts as a potent factor of natural selection.
The bottom line: Mold killing paint is not an effective remediation solution, and yes, may even work to propagate the mold.
3/ Well water:
QUESTION: My well water has a strong musty smell and I feel unwell after changing the water filter.
I assume this is from Actinobacteria. Should I have the water tested and do I need to worry about contaminants in the water spreading to the house?
ANSWER: I have not seen contamination of Actinobacteria in well water. Testing makes sense. To date, we have not seen a spread of Actinobacteria from well water.
4/ Remediation, steam cleaning
QUESTION: Is steam cleaning safe to use? It certainly is easier for the heavy cleaning that I need to finish.
Steam cleaning is satisfactory, especially for carpets provided the dry out will be accomplished in several hours. Some people have used steam cleaning to a point that a clean rug stays wet for several days. This will only add to mold growth. Steam cleaning has not been needed for tile floors or hardwood floors in my experience.
We do advise eliminating carpeting, but in the case of large area rugs steam cleaning does the trick with a thorough drying out.
5/ Does dry cleaning get rid of mold?
To date, none of the particulates found in the interior environment of water-damaged buildings including fragments of mold, bacteria and actinomycetes, have given persistent inflammatory results when contaminated clothes were dry cleaned. One might ask why
clothing can be dry cleaned successfully but drapes can not. There is paucity of literature in this regard but since the fabric is used for clothing are usually not the same as draperies (with the exception of Scarlet O’Hara), I think that the different makeup of porous fabrics is important. Having said all that, I tell people to simply wash their clothes or dry clean and remove from exposure to prevent cross-contamination.
6/ Remediation, microwaving books
QUESTION: I have a variety of old master books that have been kept on a shelf in my mold contaminated residence. How can I decontaminate these books? Is microwaving satisfactory?
ANSWER: I am not a book conservator but would strongly suggest that you speak to an expert in rare books regarding the mechanism of decontamination of cellulose-based materials. Certainly books have been saved from a variety of water-damaged buildings by experts in
the past!
I am unfamiliar with use of microwaving alone to assist with management of decontamination of books as killing organisms will only help for the one actually viable spore for each of 500 particulates. Microwaving does not curdle or coagulate toxins and
inflammagens. If microwaving is used, I would strongly recommend that adequate cleaning be followed.
7/ Remediation of candles
QUESTION: I am working hard to avoid cross contamination. I have a collection of candles and wonder if they are safe to clean or do I need to discard them?
ANSWER: Candles may be washed in lukewarm water and then wiped down with a quaternary ammonium compound.
8/ Remediation issues, indoor plants
QUESTION: Do I need to re-pot my indoor plants to avoid cross contamination?
ANSWER: No. To date, the ecological community of organisms found in soils of potted plants has not been a reservoir of inflammagens or toxigens. I have not restricted use of indoor plants in any patients although I am aware that some people are so sensitive that they
avoid plants. This number of people is quite small.
9/ Remediation for tricothecenes
QUESTION: What do you consider sufficient remediation for tricothecenes? I have a patient with severe depression, migraines, fibromyalgia (narcotic rx) and panic attacks who lives in a home
remediated for “black mold” last year. No one ever informed her that black mold could cause physical illness (this is a true story). I am of course working her up for biotoxin illness. However since nothing was done for the furniture or clothing during the remediation I am assuming that tricothecenes can still be present. What do you think?
ANSWER: I don’t assay for mycotoxins as there is no way to say that any one kind of inflammagen can cause the CIRS-WDB. Trichothecenes, or any mycotoxins, must not be considered to be the sole or primary focus of Rx. Don’t forget all the other “baddies” in the air. The entire “chemical stew” found inside WDB is much more diverse.
I use a “HERTSMI-2 Scorecard′′ value of < 10 as “likely safe,” understanding that we can’t measure everything. This is a new roster (see the HERTSMI-2 Power Point on this subject on the site) that is a derivative of ERMI. It is far more accurate than ERMI alone. Please take a quick look at the resources in Surviving Mold that review how to clean, clean, clean after remediation.
You may want to review and refer to the resources listed below.
10/ Can Items be salvaged?
QUESTION: In a dry area where the ERMI is high because mold was blown in by the HVAC, such as the floor above a water damaged basement, can items such as paper and cardboard be salvaged by
HEPA vacuuming or must they be disposed of as if they had been in the basement?
ANSWER: Unfortunately, other than making copies of documents, I know of no way to salvage paper products.
11/ QUESTION: We have mold in our basement crawl space. Should we use a product containing hydrogen peroxide and peroxyacetic acid?
ANSWER: Cleaning all reservoirs of small particulates really is important. Treatment of basement and crawl spaces demand removal of fragments of microbes as these fragments account for 99.8% of illness. Simply spraying some liquid does nothing to remove fragments.
Strict attention to precise detail is required to clean. Things such as spray cleaning alone or fogging alone has no role to help rehabilitate homes. Think about it. Say you have some magical spray or fog that “kills” all bacteria, fungi and actinomycetes with a single application (there is no such product for sale). What will that action do to the extant fragments of fungi or bacteria? Nothing. Where does the problem with WDB come from? Fragments by about 500 to 1. What possible logic would support trying to kill what isn’t alive and then not cleaning compulsively? We are looking at the need to clean for safety of those who have HLA genetic susceptibility. Trying to kill chemicals that are not alive is not logical.
There are specific remediation processes required. See the remediation and cleaning resources listed below, and/or contact a remediation company that works specifically with CIRS.As far as spray cleaning goes, after a thorough remediation, it is useful for non-porous items and surface maintenance cleaning, but far better than bleach peroxide or Isopropyl alcohol are quaternary ammonium compounds. I like Fantastik the best.
